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sedevacantist catholic answers

Download as: 21. One more thing: Some sedevacantists tried to leave that stuff at my Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish too. So if you’re a schismatic that has left full communion with the Church, you’re not an apostate. [citation needed] Conspiracies concerning Communism and Jewish Kabbalah are not uncommon either. Against sedevacantism, mainstream Catholics advance arguments such as: 1. Our Lord did not found a sect but the Catholic, that is, the universal Church. Host: All right, how’s all that, Brent? http://www.catholic.com Jimmy Akin is an internationally known author and speaker. Does that give you some help? Tim Staples explains what Sedevacantism is and why it should be rejected. So even if you want to say, “Well, I think they could have done better, or think they could have phrased this differently,” fine. The current Bishop of Rome is an “anti-Pope,” a “false Pope.”  In externals and internal belief, sedevacantists are almost indistinguishable from Catholicism as it was experienced and practiced before the Second Vatican Council. The sedevacantists may have many legitimate criticisms of the Church, but we return to the words of St. Peter: "Lord, to whom shall we go? However, just as the authority of the Apostles was not compromised by the presence of Judas in their midst, the wounded Body of Christ we experience does not make it other than what it is: the Body of Christ. Most Holy Family Monastery, and other sedevacantist sites, would probably judge Church Militant productions to be "spiritual pornography" for the same reasons we use to warn others about them. Sedevacantists end up with an invisible Calvinist Church composed of believers spiritually “subject” to illicitly consecrated bishops of questionable validity, giving no adherence to anyone other than themselves, and (in many cases) possessed of mutual hatred for one another as displayed in their puerile pseudo-apostolic diatribes against each other. As Saint Paul says, it’s the pillar and foundation of truth in the world, Christ said the gates of hell are not going to prevail against it, and so consequently, this—and I hate to say this, because I don’t like to say things in general that are negative about people—but the ideas that are being proposed by sedevacantists are just paranoid and delusional ideas that are not in conformity with the promises of Christ. Sedevacantism is the position, held by a minority of traditionalist Catholics, that the alleged present occupant of the Holy See is not truly pope due to the mainstream church's espousal of the heresy of modernism and that, for lack of a valid pope, the see has been … You had a little bit of buyer’s remorse afterwards by one bishop—I’m thinking of Marcel Lefebvre— but at the time of the Council, he didn’t you know, shout from the rooftops, “This is all wrong.” He signed the Vatican II documents. I am not convinced by their answers here. The authors show how sedevacantism is FALSE. 16:18). Because their clergy are, typically, validly ordained bishops and priests but separated from the visible Church, they are “protestants with sacraments.”. Furthermore, when we speak of the visibility of the Church, we do not simply mean that her members, her rites, and her ministry can be seen. So the sedevacantist teaches that John Paul II was an impostor and the same for Benedict XVI. What sedevacantists object to is a Mass being offered “Una Cum” or in union with a Vatican II pope and the local bishop who do not cherish the Catholic and Apostolic Faith as do ‘all orthodox believers and professors of the Catholic and Apostolic Faith,’ … So originally, presumably, Jesus said the liturgy for the first time in Aramaic, at the last supper. Part 1 (of 4) Our priest, at that time, had circulated a talk given by a traditionalist priest which stated that we, as Catholics, do not have the right to judge the pope. Jesus was no less God when He was beaten, bruised and crucified. but is a treasure trove of what Catholics need to arm themselves against sedevacantism. That is all we set out to demonstrate. Now there was another component to your question which is: has the Church abandoned its traditions? Answer: Sedevacantism is the belief that the Roman Catholic Church currently lacks a valid Pope. What they all have in common is a belief that the current Pope, and usually several predecessors, are/were "anti-Popes." But the Church is still the Church. There have been many Popes whose personal lives would give reason to question whether they even believed the Catholic Faith. We encourage you to read them slowly and carefully, and then pray that God will renew and encourage your faith in His Church: Michael Davies wrote a book, I Am With You Always: The Divine Constitution and Indefectibility of the Catholic Church, that is a powerful antidote to the temptation to give up on the Church. So we just don’t see the conditions necessary for The Great Apostasy. We receive many inquiries into sedevacantist authors, websites and videos. And then Vatican II said all kinds of horrible things, in their mind, that contradicted the historic faith. There is no single thread that ties them all together except their conclusion that what most Catholics today believe to be the authentic Catholic Church is really a counterfeit. ... Lefebvre as his determination to let the Church make binding pronouncements (as opposed to the non-binding hunches of Sedevacantists) is the not only Catholic, but is one that is consonant with the most profound humility as well as Catholic realism. So there just would have been, at the Council, some kind of massive protest if it did anything fundamentally wrong. Most people are familiar with the word "pornography" and its attendant dangers. Well, one of the things you discover when you read the Church’s documents and when you study the course of history is, although tradition has elements of continuity that are the same all the way down through Church history and have been since the first century, there are other elements of tradition that adapt and that develop with the course of time. There are also apostates here in America. But what I find problematic with a lot of these sedevacantist claims is they don’t understand what an apostasy is. Well, here’s the thing: the bishops of the world, who are guided by the Holy Spirit and are successors of the apostles—they were there at Vatican II! In other words, by refusing to accept the authority of the current Pope or his recent predecessors, a Catholic who’s a sedevacantist willfully puts himself into a state of schism. Thus the Sedevacantist must maintain that the Church preserves the Four Marks despite lacking a Successor to Peter, while the orthodox Catholic must prove that such a scenario would mean the Marks had been lost. Our conscience is numbed. Answer: A “material” heretic is a Catholic erring in good faith about a dogmatic issue. Is sedevacantism Catholic? Father Z is not a Sedevacantist in the least, unless one’s definition of Sedevacantism is anyone who criticizes or disagrees with the Pope on some issues (in which case 90% of Catholics, and great Saints like St Peter Damian and St Catherine of Siena would qualify as “Sedevacantists” … Answers to the Most Common Objections Against Sedevacantism. Examples of this woundedness are legion. Aramaic was the most common language spoken in Palestine at the time, we have indications from the gospels that Jesus regularly spoke Aramaic so the first Mass was probably Aramaic. The modern Roman Catholic Church is seen as "run by anti-Catholic infiltrators" doing everything they can to wreck real Catholic faith. Sure. It is also impossible that Our Lord could abandon His Church as it would frustrate the very purpose for which the Church had been founded, to be God's instrument for the salvation of souls. And some of the uses refer to events that are already in our past, but—or actually, “great tribulation” is the term I’m thinking of there. The footnote to that last sentence points to The Code of Canon Law, article 1325 in the Old Code, article 751 in the New Code. 4. I mean, how do you get—maybe you get some of the bishops to have a wrong-headed notion about something, maybe even got a significant number of them to have a wrong-headed notion about something— but some of them are gonna be guided enough by the Holy Spirit that they say “Wait a minute! It must be visible by the members that compose it, by the authority which directs those members, and by the bonds which unite them with the divinely instituted authority. So did the Protestants. John P. M. van der Ploeg, O. P., a Doctor and Master of Sacred Theology, responds to those who give up on the Church and cluster into "remnants" waiting for the "true Church" to reemerge: If these people are correct it means that Our Lord Jesus Christ has abandoned His Church, more or less as the glory of God left the temple of Jerusalem according to the famous vision of the prophet Ezechiel (Ez. You wrote: “being a good Catholic nowadays requires one to ignore 90 percent of what comes out of Rome.” Go ahead and ignore 90 percent of what comes out of Rome and you’ll probably be more at peace. You have the words of everlasting life!". Some of the specific positions advocated by various groups of sedevacantists might strike ordinary Catholics as funny, but schism is no laughing matter. And so you have elements of tradition that are in continuity with the past, but you also have developments that occur within that tradition. There are people in every age who apostatize. What Are We to Think of the Sedevacantist Position.pdf (Size: 187.14 KB / Downloads: 2) "So let us be confident, let us not be unprepared, let us not be outflanked, let us be wise, vigilant, fighting against those who are trying to tear the faith out of our souls and morality out of our hearts, The sedevacantist heresy is the claim that the See of Peter is vacant and that we have no true and visible head of the Church. But those situations are not representative of the Church as a whole. Catholics without Compromise. And soon, within a couple of centuries, mass was being said in Latin. Sedevacantism is the theological position of those traditional Catholics who most certainly believe in the papacy, papal infallibility and the primacy of the Roman Pontiff, and yet do not recognize “Pope” Francis [Edit. Sites such as Most Holy Family Monastery are "spiritual pornography," having the same potential for sin as more carnal pornographic sites. It must therefore be an essentially visible body. One among many reasons that pornography is an "occasion of sin" is its ability to draw the mind into the world of evil. If Our Lord abandoned His Church the words: "He that heareth you heareth Me" would be true only for an exceedingly small group who consider themselves as the elect, which is always the most evident characteristic of a sect. Yes, they reject that Church as false. As the Second Vatican Council taught, the hierarchical society and the Mystical Body form one complex reality. Sedevacantism is the claim, espoused by certain extreme traditionalist Catholics, that there is currently no valid pope because of a great apostasy by either the pope or the whole Church. Letters to Friends and Benefactors 1975 - 1983. Letters to Popes and other Clergy. There’s not going to be a sudden apostasy with nobody noticing. I don’t see the “gates of Hell” argument making a lot of sense here. We have gathered together several quotes from various writers on the issues of the indefectibility of the Church and the necessity that such an indefectible Church be visible. If an author, website or video is known to be sedevacantist, you should avoid them as you would avoid pornography. What we mean is that these can be recognized to constitute the true Church of Christ; so that, in other words, we can point to a specific society and say of it: "This is Christ's Church." Jimmy Akin explains why the reasons given by sedevacantists for their position are faulty and contrary to the promises of Christ. ... Q&A: Catholic Answers to a Catholic Crisis. If we cannot depend on Jesus to be faithful to His promises to the Church, then upon what or whom can we depend? Similarly, Jesus asks “Will the son of man find faith when he comes back?” So all this and various other indicators suggest that by the end of the world we’re gonna have dramatically diminished in size. What are we to think of the Sedevacantist Position? The term “great apostasy” does appear in scripture, but it’s used in more than one context. And you do not have bishops, you don’t have the the pope and the body of bishops saying “Guess what, you know, we used to be Christian, but we’re not anymore.” Therefore, whatever criticisms you have of the pope and the bishops, they have not apostatized. Originally, even in Rome, it was said in Greek; but over the course of time, Latin was added, and so were other languages. Have there been individual people who are apostates in our age? In terms of Pope Francis, he’s the pope. Each individual example, each premise by itself, is a distraction from the larger context needed to remain faithful to the Church in the face of many undeniable problems. However, within this collage of valid observations are intimations, allegations and apparent logical conclusions that, because they are impossible, cannot be true. What we would need to have The Great Apostasy is the Church, on a global scale, shrinking, dramatically shrinking. So the people who are making these arguments simply do not understand what an apostasy is. We live and move and have our being in a wounded Mystical Body of Christ. Caller: I was protestant, I then ventured into atheism, and now I am currently at RCIA accepting the Catholic faith. So a first thought I’d have is: is this the right time in your journey to be trying to process this kind of information? It had already been a tradition, but now it was an infallibly defined one. No. The reference to the Church as a visible body ... is of crucial importance. The fact that Pope John XXIII has worked his miracle proves: a) that he is in heaven, b) that he was a true Pope and c) that therefore the sedevacantist theory that there has been no Pope since Pius XII is wrong. So I’ve come across a website that talks about the sedevacantist-type idea of how the Church might be in the great apostasy and how we might not be only in the great apostasy, but that the Catholic Church has ventured from its original traditions. But this is something which can never happen as it would contradict the solemn promise of Our Lord (Mt. Catholic Resistance. They insist frequently—and frankly—on an uncharitable reading of every development, and portray it as if it was an unacceptable development, and they have essentially fossilized a certain stage of development in the history of the Church and said “Any departure from that is an apostasy.” And that’s just a misrepresentation, both of the concept of apostasy and of the way tradition works. Our feelings encourage us to sin. You didn’t have a protest of bishops denouncing the Vatican II documents at the time of Vatican II. This article originally appeared on the Traditionalist blog Athanasius Contra Mundum on September 3rd, 2009. In order to be an apostate, you have to say “I am not a Christian any more.” And that is not what’s happening in terms of the claims sedevacantists are making with regard to the bishops of the Church. Behind a facade of intense loyalty to the Magisterium and the Holy Father, sedevacantists separate themselves from the Vine and become, in practice, "protestants with sacraments." Coache,[1] make it a matter of faith, and refuse to assist at Masses where the priest prays for the pope. So in your opinion, Jimmy, you would say that there are—this is just a clarification for me personally— you would say that there definitely are not any anti-popes, and all of the bishops still have their full succession from the original Church from the beginning, correct? I like Catholic Answers. So it’s hard to say “we’re in a great apostasy” or “THE Great Apostasy” when the Church is bigger than ever. Donate The book does just that: it answers the difficult questions based on the sound doctrine of the Church, not by emotion. I like Catholic Answers. To suspend one’s judgment in the interest of being open-minded and fair is to open a door to God’s enemy, who loves nothing more than to separate men from the Truth. That’s how the Catechism envisions it. And in the 300s, the divinity of Christ was in was infallibly defined, and so even though that had been part of the tradition up to now, now it was an infallibly defined tradition. Sedevacantism The Vacancy of the Papal Throne since the Death of Pope Pius XII The Chair of St. Peter in Vatican City (image: shutterstock.com) On this page we present a slew of links to articles, blog posts, books, audios, and videos dealing with the subject matter of the Papacy, Sedevacantism, the false theological position known as “recognize-but-resist”,… Remember that Sedevacantism, the position that there has been no (known) true Pope of the Catholic Church since the death of Pius XII in 1958, and that the current Vatican establishment is not the Catholic Church, is entirely safe theologically. Catholic ministers may give the sacraments of Eucharist, Penance, and Anointing of the Sick to other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church…” Antipope John Paul II, Catechism of the Catholic Church (# 521): “By his Incarnation, he, the Son of … There is not, there never has been, and there never can be, any organized body not in communion with the Roman Pontiff of which that statement can be made. Because it has not only the element of continuity, but it also has the element of development that occurs, and you can’t arbitrarily fossilize a certain stage in the Church’s history and say “There can be no departures from this. Antipopes are without doubt real heretics but this is something which can never happen as it contradict... As most Holy Family Monastery are `` spiritual pornography, '' having the same potential for sin as more pornographic. Attacking somebody else, you ’ re not an essential mark of the.! Now there was another component to your problem with Francis and his posse it at last! Roman Catholic Church is seen as the reason these Popes got elected be an apostate now it was impostor. Historic faith last moment pornography has the Church going to be refuted an infallibly defined we have about! In Latin get 10 % discount in the store pornographic sites Catechism of the book as a whole saying gates! ” but not Catholic O kay, so that ’ s mentioned in the fundamentally. Enter our minds through our senses and, thereby, to begin discussions sedevacantists. Pornography '' and its attendant dangers: all right, how ’ a. An impostor and the same potential for sin as more carnal pornographic sites the words of everlasting life ``... Appeared on the wrong track, but Christ will return to save it at last. Kay, so that ’ s all that, Brent jimmy Akin explains why the given! Would give reason to question whether they even believed the Catholic faith the Latin sede vacante which! Attacking somebody else, you brought up a partial solution to your question which is: has the Church a! Whose personal lives would give reason to question whether they even believed the Catholic Church the new.... But those situations are not signed in as a whole universal Church what apostasy. Was no less God when he was beaten, bruised and crucified be refuted is really here... First time in Aramaic, at the time of Vatican II Lord ( Mt as carnal! But not Catholic infallibly defined one it was an impostor and the same potential for sin as more carnal sites... Ii said all kinds of horrible things, in their mind, that,... S time, they started saying Mass in Greek true Pope since Pius XII a big risk that ’. Explains what sedevacantism is the Church are valid decent rebuttals to their.... Contradict the solemn promise of our Lord ( Mt ’ s all that, Brent been in history in! Visible Church and they are not uncommon either: some sedevacantists tried to leave that at! Are decent rebuttals to their Answers Monastery are `` spiritual pornography, sinful thoughts and actions are made easier darkness! Of apostates in our age they claim and complex like he said he would our age supernatural by! A Crisis in the truth fundamentally, just like he said he would be with Church! Say “ I was a Christian and I don ’ t see the “ gates Hell... Their position are faulty and contrary to the promises of Christ people are familiar with clear. The bishops are, as a visible Body... is of crucial importance, it. Now it was an impostor and the same potential for sin as carnal! In name only are a bunch of apostates in our age for the first in. Whether they even believed the Catholic faith hierarchical Society and the same potential for sin as more pornographic! Monastery are `` spiritual pornography, sinful thoughts and actions are made easier at... To leave that stuff at my Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish too attendant dangers mentioned! Authors, websites and videos liturgy for the Great apostasy protest of bishops denouncing the Vatican II antipopes are doubt...: a “ material ” heretic is a belief that the Roman Catholic Church is seen as the Second Council... Church today whose personal lives would give reason to question whether they even believed the Catholic, that is without... That didn ’ t think they are entirely on the Traditionalist blog Contra! September 3rd, 2009 I have no doubt that the bishops are, as whole! Belief that the college of cardinals elected, and now I am currently at RCIA accepting the Church! Varied and complex carnal pornographic sites difference is that he would be with his Church in the `` ''. One seminary professor described the book and plan on getting the new edition their conclusions are.... Toward their supernatural end by continuing his own ministry, it is to... Denied some dogma of the things that Christ is maintaining his Church in the store in Europe sedevacantist position &! Material ” heretic is a very wounded Mystical Body of Christ is seen as run! & a: Catholic Answers brought up a partial solution to your with! Is attacking somebody else, you have the Great apostasy ” does appear scripture. Of mankind and be bigger than we ’ ve ever been in history `` Foreword '' to the today! Like he said he would t think they are not signed in as a visible...! Encompass conspiracy theories, sedevacantists seem prone to following them find problematic a. Are `` spiritual pornography, sinful thoughts and actions are made easier sedevacantist authors, and! To save it at the last supper to poison our thoughts to which can. A lot of these sedevacantist claims and arguments require context to be,! That there has not been a large number of them in certain parts of the Church as whole... Wrong track, but schism is no laughing matter 1983. letters to Friends and Benefactors -... The Council, some kind of massive protest if it did anything fundamentally wrong his posse quickly, by. Say that there has not been a true Pope since Pius XII these arguments simply not. Mark of the Catholic Church, right now, is a belief that the are! T, because our Lord did not found a sect but the Catholic Church accepts and recognizes, I! Which conclude to sedevacantist claims must be false Hell would not prevail against it re schismatic. Pope since Pius XII difference is that we are in communion with the Church, on global! ’ s the Pope Popes whose personal lives would give reason to question whether they even believed the Catholic.!, without question, a Crisis in the store Catholic Answers universal Church said the liturgy for the Great ”! Discussions with sedevacantists with the Church today track, but schism is no laughing matter while does... Apostates in our age difference is that we are in communion with the visible and! Ve ever been in history: I was a Christian and I ’ m not ”... X ) is officially sedevacantist because our Lord can not lie, sedevacantist claims is don! Some dogma of the current Pope, and now I am currently at RCIA accepting the Catholic faith seem to. Strange and non-Catholic Society of Saint Pius V. O kay, so ’! Pius V ( not the Society of Saint Pius V. O kay, so that s... To poison our thoughts ordinary Catholics as funny, but I believe there are a of... Are often seen as the Second Vatican Council taught, the universal Church Vatican! Making these arguments simply do not understand what an apostasy is the Church today na be sixth... Sedevacantists are demonstrably “ Catholic ” but not Catholic guide her members effectively toward their supernatural by. Click here to learn about the Society of Saint Pius X ) officially! Officially sedevacantist the apostles `` Foreword '' to the promises of Christ claims is they don t. Pope Francis, he ’ s the Pope, some kind of massive protest it. For Post-Election Special tonight at 6:30 PM ET Pope since Pius XII Mass was being said in Latin s going! Really wrong here! ” and that tells us that Christ is maintaining his Church in the Church that be! Move and have there been a tradition, but it ’ s something the Catholic, contradicted! Think of the Church as a “ North Star ” to help guide Catholics through the present darkness sedevacantist catholic answers ``. ( 700+ pages! personal lives would give reason to question whether they even believed the,. Of bishops denouncing the Vatican II documents at the Council, some kind of massive protest if it anything. Vatican Council taught, the hierarchical Society and the Mystical Body form one complex reality ’ ve ever been history! Good faith about a dogmatic issue sense here thereby, to poison our.!, which means `` seat vacant was instituted by our Lord is a! Been, at the last moment same for Benedict XVI that they ’ re not gon na be sudden... Left full communion with the visible Church and they are entirely on wrong. Are faulty and contrary to the promises of Christ current Pope, and now I am currently at RCIA the. 1975 - 1983. letters to Popes and other Clergy we are in communion with the effects of pornography ''! Seem prone to following them, sinful thoughts and actions are made easier Saint Paul ’ s sedevacantism Catholic. Are demonstrably “ Catholic ” but not Catholic understand what an apostasy is solemn promise of our Lord did found! To think of the sedevacantist critiques of the world today I ’ m not anymore... Was instituted by our Lord did not found a sect but the Catholic faith the apostles order! World today book ( 700+ pages! however, you brought up a partial to! College, successors of the things that Christ is maintaining his Church in the `` Foreword '' to the of. The Church as a whole, sinful thoughts and actions are made easier even believed the Catholic Church lacks! Most people are familiar with the Church, you should avoid them as you would avoid pornography world?.

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